Doctor Reacts to Middle Ground: Pro-Vaccine vs Anti-Vaccine

Doctor Mike
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    Many of you have messaged me on IG, Twitter, and FB asking me to respond to this new video between Pro-Vaccine and Anti-Vaccine arguments. This is a hotly debated topic so lets please be respectful in the comments!

    Jubilee Media has an excellent series called Middle Ground where they have folks with opposing beliefs on controversial topics sit beside one another to discuss their views. I have long been a fan of this type of moderated content and applaud Jubilee for setting this up.

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    ** The information in this video is not intended or implied to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. All content, including text, graphics, images, and information, contained in this video is for general information purposes only and does not replace a consultation with your own doctor/mental health professional**


    - I wish there was just more compassion. No, we don't wanna make something difficult. We just wanna be acknowledged. My daughter was a victim, and she's being punished. (suspenseful music) - Hey guys, welcome to another episode of The Wednesday Checkup. Sorry we're in the crazy furry rug space here today at YouTube, but I wanted to get this video out as soon as possible. When I heard that there was a video made between anti-vax and pro-vaccine folks, I decided to watch it and give you my reaction live right here first time watching it. - I'm Bob Sears. I'm a pediatrician. - A pediatrician who's anti-vaccine. Interesting. - It is passion is just to help encourage a full, complete, informed consent for vaccinations. - Doesn't sound like he's anti-vaccine. He said he's in favor of informed consent. I think all doctors, at least they should be for informed consent. Curious where this is going. - Well I was vaccinated as a child, but my last vaccine was about 15 years ago when I returned to college, and I had a severe reaction in that I became arthritic in my hands. Went to many, many doctors, and nobody knew what was going on and why it was happening. And just shrugged like it doesn't make sense, you're too young to have arthritis. And it wasn't until having kids and digging into my own research for them that a lot of answers started coming up, and I think it's unfortunate that a lot of it is overlooked. - I guess maybe I'll participate in this. This could be a cool way to do it. I am vaccinated. If I was to have children, they'd be vaccinated, and I am a doctor who's pro-vaccine. Becoming an anti-vaccine activist based on your own experience of having a negative outcome to a vaccine to me is not wise, and I'll point out why I believe that. If you look at the statistical evidence between the harms that could come from vaccines, because there are some harms, and then you look at what you're preventing, essentially what are the benefits? What diseases are you preventing by getting a vaccine? There's so much benefit there. Horrible that the mothering activist had this thing happen to her, but it shouldn't be the sole reason for why someone believes that vaccines are bad and that they're anti-vaccine. - I will acknowledge, of course as a pediatrician, I know vaccines work. I know they give you protection. They vary greatly in what that protection is. It's not like 100% magical shield over you completely. - I don't understand where this doctor falls under anti-vaccine, if that's his stance. - I think when you're giving kids medication, you have to get micro about it. I don't think it's doing your kids any service to just say vaccines are all made the same, and they're all safe and healthy and good for you. That everybody's benefiting from it, because-- - She's right. - That's false. It's not true. - But we study them before we release them to the public. We study them, so we do know they're safe. That's the thing is we know-- - Safe-ish. They're safe-ish. - well safer. - You know, being an intensive, I see the worst of the worst. And so seeing the other side of kids who don't get vaccinated, I saw a kid walk in with Meningococcemia, which I haven't seen in decades. He had all four limbs cut off. They had to be amputated because it was all dead tissue. You forget how bad things were before we had vaccines. - I'm really proud that the intensivist took this route, because many times sub-specialists will often run to talking about statistics or studies and research, and to people who are not of scientific education, it's difficult to relate to that. But when you tell a powerful story like he just did, that really strikes the message home. That children are dying. They're losing limbs unnecessarily. I agree with the mother on the vaccine issue. This shouldn't be a macro issue. This is a micro issue. Each vaccine should be evaluated, but the truth of the matter is they are. We don't just say all vaccines are good. We look at each individual vaccine. Each individual vaccine has a different set of adverse reactions, AKA bad things that can happen as a result of getting them. But again, the trade-off in taking the risk of having one of these adverse reactions is the protection from the disease that we hope to prevent or even eradicate at times. - I don't like the assumption that if a child is unvaccinated some how they are of risk to everyone. And also knowing that vaccinated individuals can also be carrying and spreading diseases. I think it's very polarizing to separate the two as if, if you're vaccinated you're totally fine. You're not risking anybody anything. - I disagree with her, because if you're vaccinated, it doesn't mean you're not risking anyone. It means when you're vaccinated, you're doing your job to protect those who cannot be vaccinated. It doesn't mean that you're a great person. It doesn't speak to your lack of ability to do harm, but that's not what the point of the issue is. The point of the issue is if you choose not to vaccinate your children, and you're okay with your child getting measles or one of these illnesses, what about the children that have an immunodeficiency or have some sort of other issue that they can't get vaccines? And as a result of that, your child then spreads a deadly illness to them and they die too. - Anybody could be spreading diseases, especially things like Polio and Pertussis that are not completely covered by the vaccine. - Again, I agree that not everybody's covered, but if you can reduce that likelihood, why wouldn't you? - I started out vaccinating my daughter, because I believed all the same things that you said. It wasn't until she had a reaction and several reactions that I actually had to look at it differently where I realized by continuing vaccinating for her, that actually would hurt her. And yet everyone wants me to do it for the population. - This is a very specific situation. This is where things get tricky. If you're having adverse reactions to vaccines, I don't think there's any doctor in the world who says continue getting vaccines to protect all of us. It doesn't matter if the vaccines hurt your daughter. In fact, one of the first questions I ask before I administer vaccines is have you ever had adverse events? What were they? And we investigate them prior to giving vaccines. If your child for some reason cannot get a vaccine because of adverse events, you fall into the population that needs to be protected by herd immunity. - A number of families who look into vaccines, they will decide to opt out of vaccines, because they feel they are just not willing to risk the side effects. - But the side effects are one in a million, one in two million, whereas the side effects from the diseases when I see all these outbreaks and things like that, I'm gonna choose vaccines every time. - And that's, I think right there, is the disservice to this conversation, because it is a risk benefit analysis. And what's unfortunate is how downplayed those risks are. I only started investigating vaccines because I ended up with a kid with an autoimmune disorder. - Autoimmune disorders have been present before vaccinations were. What's interesting here is, yes, it may not be one in a million or one in two million, or whatever the odds are. The bottom line of why it shouldn't be an optional thing of opting out from vaccines, at least when it comes to public schools, is because a, herd immunity exists, b, it's my job as the doctor to make sure the parent is giving quality care to the child. If the child had a broken bone, and the parent wasn't adequately treating it and didn't wanna go see a doctor, and the child was suffering as a result, I can report them to the proper authorities. It doesn't mean that because they're your child, you can just do whatever. So by not getting vaccinations, it's medically and statistically proven that you're endangering your child to develop these deadly diseases. Therefore, we don't allow you to opt out. At least, we don't allow you to opt out from schools, and that's sort of our catch-all behind all this. - The one in a million is not a real number. - It's really not. - And so the more that that is put out, - It is. It's public. - so people think that, No, it's not. Not when you're talking about the different kinds of reactions. - I think the number you're referring to is anaphylactic shock. Anaphylactic shock is, of course, extremely rare, whereas when you look at seizures from the MMR vaccine are one in 3,000. - But again, this creates fear in parents. - Well we worry that those on your side downplay those. - We don't necessarily downplay them. We weigh them against the benefits of getting the vaccine, and if you're getting a vaccine and it's preventing you from getting an illness, which vaccines have been proven over time to do this, the one in 3,000 statistic is difficult to conceptualize for a parent, because they don't know how often the actual disease occurs. As a result of this, we as doctors make the recommendation that taking the one in 3,000 risk of having a seizure is worth it to prevent this deadly illness from happening. - I don't think it's an idea of downplay. I think it comes back to what we were saying with the risk benefit analysis, and I think the data's very clear. - It's so hard not to talk about data when you're talking about vaccines as a doctor, but unfortunately when you're trying to influence someone and you're trying to change their mind on something, it doesn't work well. And I imagine this is gonna fall on deaf ears. - It's hard to trust s...
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